Bombing Without Catching an Edge

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Bombing Without Catching an Edge

Postby english hick » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:37 am

Okay guys here it is.

First week snowboarding and I'm following a couple of more experienced riders. We reach a piece of piste where you have absolutely nail to get past a long flat area without walking. Now I was flying with the board dead flat on the snow and you guessed it caught an edge and had a fairly major wipeout. This happened more than once when I was 'flat'. Now I stay on an edge at all times, because there seems to be no warning when riding on the flat that you are going to catch a bottom edge and be catapulted 20 odd feet face first! Am doing right to stay on edges or does anyone else brave riding with the board flat and the snow (this is on bashed runs not pow). Hints and tips welcome (I've got quite big feet and toes and heels overhang about an inch, if that helps- although I'm sure its an edge and not me feet)

Happy cruising
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Postby John » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:57 am

Ah, the dreaded (semi)flats!

Early on this season I would often be nervous about keeping too much speed, so I would do a check by turning my board so that it was no longer in the fall line.

As my confidence grew, I started alternating edge changes (heelside, toeside, heelside, toeside) while keeping the board down the fall line. So I would say yes, I do a fair amount of edging. But it's subtle edging, with barely an increase in my edge angle.

Sometimes, though, I will just take the speed as it comes, and stay crouched and leaning towards the front of the board. In that case, I don't do any edging. But this is usually for softer, slower snow, and flatter flats.
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Bombing (going straight) without catching an edge...

Postby dcalc » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:23 pm

There's a couple runs at a northern Mich. I go to which require you to haul down a hill in order to make the next climb - and I must say that I struggle going straight at higher speeds. I just feel like I'm going to crash when I'm not carving. I'm never sure where my weight should be distributed and I can't seem (or I'm uncomfortable) holding the board dead straight. Any tips to make this easier?
Thanks in advanced,
Dan
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Re: bombing (going straight) without catching an edge...

Postby Kecht06 » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:06 pm

dcalc wrote:There's a couple runs at a northern Mich. I go to which require you to haul down a hill in order to make the next climb - and I must say that I struggle going straight at higher speeds. I just feel like I'm going to crash when I'm not carving. I'm never sure where my weight should be distributed and I can't seem (or I'm uncomfortable) holding the board dead straight. Any tips to make this easier?
Thanks in advanced,
Dan


By saying dead straight, or you implying flat and not on an edge? That being the case I can understand why it doesn't feel comfortable. I have been doing this for a while, and rarely am I ever flat. There is a run at my resort that requires this situation, and what i do is keep my weight back and basically pick the front of my board up where I am riding on the tail only. Yes, it does take some practice, and a little courage until you get it down.

Now if you're not up to that, pick up some speed toward the end of the hill, make your last turn real wide, switch edge, and ride that edge through the flat as shallow as you can make it, staying on that edge through the flat.

The only other alternative would be to switch edges quickly, staying straight by changing the edges, but you'll need to be quick and not scruff your speed off.

I hope this helps.

staying flat too long makes your board sticky and a sticky board is never a good thing IMO
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Postby dcalc » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:23 pm

Yep, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels uncomfortable. Make sense, put weight back a little - reduces the risk of catching an edge. Let me try that.
Thanks,
Dan
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Postby John » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:38 pm

I'm not sure I understand the logic of putting your weight to the tail of the board. That sounds like you're losing control. At least that's what happens to me.

I have three options for what you might do:

1. Stay low, towards the tip, and ride the board out relatively flat. Think of it as an adreneline check.

2. Do very quick edge-to-edge changes as required, but make them shallow so as to avoid slowing down in a place where you don't want to slow down.

3. Ride slightly on the same edge all the way through the troublesome area.
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Postby Kecht06 » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:03 pm

dcalc wrote:Yep, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels uncomfortable. Make sense, put weight back a little - reduces the risk of catching an edge. Let me try that.
Thanks,
Dan


If your catching edges while staying flat, I wonder when you last tuned up and have you ever detuned? Detuning is when you take the edge away from the nose and tail where it is not needed for good, and only bad things happen because of it. I will say most boards come out of the package sharp and un detuned, so you may consider that to aid in that.

Whenever I am riding a new board, it gets detuned tail and tip, I put a 1deg base grind on the edges, and a good wax job. All 3 in my opinion are critical for good fun riding.


John, while I understand what your saying about control and being off the edge, what I am talking about is basically popping the preverbial wheelie straight down the run. It's a blast and you can get some serious speed up.

I have a buddy who can get so high with this manuever, his beanie drags the snow.
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Postby dcalc » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:12 am

ok, i went through this spot about 20 times and fell once - but I always felt a bit uncomfortable like I was going to fall. I tried quick turns and tried to stay on one edge. I would get way left and then stay on the right edge (just barely) and switch back - but I would come up a bit short. It seemed that I had to bomb it at full speed flat out to always make it to the top of next hill. There were a couple of spots at steamboat where I had same problem.

I think I'm saying that I'm just uncomfortable going flat out straight at higher speeds. Any little wrong move and I'm on the ground. Thanks for the support.
Dan
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Postby snowflake » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:33 am

Definitely detune. Maybe you could experiment with your bindings too. I made sure mine were centered better and went up a notch on my forward lean and can ride flat better on the greens and even made it switch down the learning hill.
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Postby welshscarry » Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:35 am

This is also a problem in areas at Telluride.
Prospect Bowl has a lot of rolling areas, then hills.
If you don't haul your butt, and keep up serious speed, you'll never get up the next hill.

Riding a flat board is really tough. I would suggest keeping a slight edge on your favorite edge, and a lot of weight on the front foot.
Make very quick edge change if you get really tired. Stay focused, keep your eyes forward!

I had so much speed last week, I decided "that was the fastest I had ever gone on a board". A little bit scary, but like most things, after riding the same area about 5 times in a row, it got much more comfortable.
Whooo-Hoooo!
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Postby John » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:40 am

I went out yesterday and bombed it from a lift, past two other lifts, down into a depression, and back up another 30 feet to the gear rack outside a lodge.

Woo!

It may have been the fastest, flattest ride I've taken on the board in quite a while. I felt this urge once or twice (I made this trip several times) to do a quick toeside turn and flip the board around 90 degrees, but fortunately, I resisted.

I wish I could remember more of what I did, but weighting myself towards the tip of the board was definitely part of it. So was bending at the knees, and knowing ahead of time which side of the board (heel side, in this case) I would make a serious edge on if required. I did scrub off some speed once, and even that just a tiny amount.

Oddly enough (or perhaps not!), the two times I fell came elsewhere, on a slight decline at the top of another hill. I was going very slowly, got distracted, lost momentum, and took a butt plant.

Bombing off the lift up to the lodge, though, that was a rush.
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Postby Grizzled » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:53 pm

This is a pretty common issue with beginers. Keep your weight back a bit, don't lean forward. The last thing you want is to catch an edge at speed & go tumbling head-first. You really just need more time on the snow, practice makes perfect & with time you wont even think about it.

Don't "De-Tune" your edges. Riding in Mi. with the temps fluctuating like they have been, the snow base is ice & hard pack, you need good edges. Especially when the top layer of snow gets blown/scraped away exposing the ice.
Unless of course your riding in the parks, pipes or moguls. Hittin rails, metal edges sliding on metal rails you don't want to dig in & catch edges, or riding pipes/catching air and you want a lil forgiveness on the landing. Then de-tuning is a good idea.

Stance... eh doubt it. I didn't notice anything funny bout your stance when we met last season. Besides I've got 4 boards, each with a different stance, and I don't have this problem.... anymore. It just takes more time on the slopes to get over that sketchy uncomfortable feeling. If you need some on hill advice & want to meet up pm me. 8)
Riding since '87
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Re: Bombing (going straight) without catching an edge...

Postby Grizzled » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:04 pm

dcalc wrote:There's a couple runs at a northern Mich.
Dan


just curious. what hill, runs are you havin trouble with?
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Postby canoer » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:47 am

Grizzled wrote:Don't "De-Tune" your edges.


I detune my tips and tails - I think that was the point made earlier, the idea being that you don't want your board to initiate turns too early nor do you want it to hold too long.

I'm not good enough to really know how to dial in how much of the tip/tail should be detuned, so I rely on my shop guy to tune for me. I have no idea how far down the board he dulls things (I really trust my guy a lot btw).

There is a lot of talk in the ski world about the newer shaped skis and how they don't need as much or any tip/tail detuning. I don't know if this applies as much to a board? I suspect that if I didn't detune, I'd grind into the side of the hill initiating turns.
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Going Straight Down Hill

Postby alwysbrdn » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:31 pm

Bombing down a hill takes a few things. One is ability, you don't want to be out of control. Another is as stated earlier by someone is to stay on edge even if slightly, will save a severe smack onto the snow. And a very important item is a good wax job. Learn to wax your own boards. It is not too difficult to do and as conditions change you can change wax.
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